#20. Anything Is Possible, with James Walker

Welcome back everybody to another episode. Very excited about this one. We've got a very very own Ross Edgley in the house. I've just better looking. I wish so. This is actually round two for us. We tried to record another one a few days ago and the rain ruined it.

So James was kind enough to come back and sit down again. But I think it's more beneficial for you guys to listen because we get to dive a little bit deeper in the sum of James's. Activities and the things he's done, and I think there's a lot of good lessons there. I was listening back to the old episode. It was very enjoyable, just unfortunate about sound, so I can't really share it with everybody listening. But like I said, I think you're all going to get a lot out of this one. And let's start with you, James. How about you introduce yourself and tell everybody who you are and what you do? Sure, I'm James James Walker and I work as a General practitioner. Which I have done for the last five years, having spent the six 5-6 years prior to that working as a doctor in hospitals, predominantly emergency. And intensive care. Yep, yeah, that's so. I guess we can start with how did you end up in Australia? While I came to Australia. 2011 was just for a year to catch up with my sister who married an Aussie and meet my niece and nephew and that was on the northern beaches. And then went into emergency training. In the hospitals. And realized that I'd had enough of that. And being an English trained Dr, You have to go to a rural area if you want to switch to train as a GP. Yep, so I thought I'd I'd come somewhere. Rural District short period of time till I serve my stint before going back to Sydney. Yeah, but after a few months another dollar on the South Coast, the penny dropped and here I am nice. Yeah so is it by choice or did they just say or you have to go here or you have to go so you go you have to go rural then you get to select areas that you want to be in. Yeah nice and I thought everyone was going north at the time. Yes so busy up north and yeah so I thought I'd come and explore down South. Anne. Yeah, it is since I met the team at Milton and spoke to their boss Brett Thompson. Yep, really engaging. A charismatic individual is a no brainer. Yeah, come down here yeah yeah. And then once you're here, obviously one incredible place to be. So is your sister still in the Norman Baker? Well, well actually we've been. We've been down here for a couple of months and they came to visit for a weekend. Yeah, and I got a call from her on a Monday saying we've quit. Our jobs were moving down. On their life just like that, yeah, yeah. Yeah yeah, half of Sydney or things are done that at the moment, yeah, but that's good. IIII was awesome like that's it's pretty good decision making it strong decision making. Yeah yeah. So is it just you and your sister or do you have got any other siblings? My young sister bets back home Yep. And yes, he's married with three kids and my mom and dad are still back home. Yeah cool, that's how they visited Al Dali. Yeah, have enchanted. Yeah, it's really. You feel kind of constantly. Torn little bit guilty when he moved away from your parents near the start of the world, especially after you've had kids. Yeah, and you realize what you've done. But when they come out here and you know you can see the lifestyle. You know they get it. Yeah, they haven't sold up and moved over here. 70 and 80. Now yeah, they're pretty entrenched in their English, every business. Yeah, my dad's take a while to convert him to France who had in Speedos.

So I think they're going to stay fit, but yeah, fair enough, all right. Let's go into your I guess, exercise, fitness, all that sort of stuff, history, yeah, so let's take it back to the very start was sort of the first. I guess what first introduced you to health and fitness or being fit. Uhm? Hi, something was very very taken by but I grew up, grew up on a rugby pitch. Yeah, literally right behind the rugby pitches. And so I would go and watch the senior teams play every Saturday and naturally started to evolve involve myself in the club, yeah? And then my best mate was in this at the school together live right next door. Sorry, we could go and train in the gym or we had some weights bench in his garage and we just go and thrash out. Wait, yeah and then play and we grew up playing rugby together and it was a small rural area much like this. Here in Milton, yeah and just became. It would be a big family. Yeah, not just a big part of the culture. So yeah, we grew up that in that big rugby family, yeah, and so that was it until I was about twenty 2324. just rugby. Yeah, when did you start first? Like when did you start playing? I guess I was seven or like actually 66 seven so they had teams for the seven years. Just much many many rugby. Yeah not yeah cool playing on the side and it was fantastic. Because yeah, all the way we were at school together and their Country Club together. And so we had this big sort of support networks and. Yeah, there wasn't.

I didn't get it. I didn't have too much trouble. I remember some guy came up to me in the pub. One day and poured through a pint all over me, yeah. And tried to start a fight with me. And I remember saying look it's Friday night just come for a couple of quiet beers with my friends and not really. I don't really like fighting those guys. Do they understand, tend to point to the core of the power or the rugby lads where they're like ready to go. This guy ran out of the bar.

Yeah, it was a good brother. Yeah yeah when you say rugby and UK, that's exactly what our picture, like those sort of moments in the pub. Yeah yeah. So what was I guess when did it sort of go as something that you were just doing for fun and then you started actually training for like you said to do on wait up your friend in these home gyms and all that sort of stuff. So I went like what was the transition or is it just a natural thing to start doing some weights to improve on the football field? Yeah, I think so. I think so you are just dumb. We both just wanted to. Be better, yeah, I don't really know where that came from. Become. But certainly having someone that you're spending loads of time with is a couple of mates and it kind of all pushing each other. Yeah, and yeah, I think. So now I have. A big part of the culture is always, you know, bigger, better, faster, stronger. Yeah, and at that stage, no one really knew anything about sports science known as teaching us anything about the intricacies of you know, squat leg day yesterday we were just going for it and trying to just push out as much as we could. Yeah, it's heavy as we could. Yeah, and probably. And training mirror muscles. And yeah, all the mistakes that we didn't know we're making, but so it took a long time to fall into some slightly more. Sensible training habits? Yeah, so for short. So I guess like you know, playing is a 12-year-old compared to a

20 years old. Would have been very different. So were you doing anything different I guess as in recovery or exercises? Obviously your training on the pitch and all that would sort of look the same like skills and sprints and that sort of thing and run plays but. Did you start bringing a bit more recovery or do you know the routine? As in we train on these days and these days, so we're going to go for a run on other days weights on other days? Or is it just whatever you could fit in with? Yeah, sort of became a bit more mindful about rest and certainly towards the end of what when I was playing then. Ice bar thing. Yeah, it's like that, yeah? And think a bit more about food. All those kinds of things, yeah.

But yeah, I mean make it sound like I was playing at a really high level on that. I wasn't just generally the way we're approaching. Things were a little bit more balanced. Yeah, a bit more sensible than just, yeah, yeah, that's wrong. Everything into it. So let's go on to the next one so you have. Did you continue playing when you move to Australia? So I moved to Australia for another year here when I was

and I was playing then. Yep, before I went back. To Med school. But yeah, after going to Med school, they sort of frittered away. I was playing for the medics occasionally, but.

Yeah, I lost a little bit of the intensity about the rugby. But I haven't played it in play since I came out here. So what did you transition into next then? I guess would be the. No, you've obviously come over here. You were playing a little bit of rugby. Stop doing that. What was next after that? I'm going to endurance sports. I started running, Yep. An opportunity to do the New York Marathon in 2003. Yeah, and a friend organized a little group of this. From the unit from first, you need to go over and do the New York Marathon, which was a huge experience and I got completely hooked. Yeah. And then after that was just a series of marathons. Yeah, nice different shapes and sizes so leading up to that first one. What was the training like for that? So is that a marathon? Is K so to miles OK? A lot of elevation in on the New York marathon. Yeah, I believe it or not. No idea. I thought it was just like yeah there you go. Yeah, it's it's. It is a fair bit especially at the end in Central Park was a real yeah kick in the nuts. Uh, yeah it was. I mean so different from trading for rugby. Know that the explosive sprints, sprints and all the plyometric stuff. Yeah, and then suddenly just long and slow. Yep, here's a real shock. The first order was three miles and I remember it. Being tearing this thing, it's really hard. And just not being able to figure out how I was going to get around 26 But I think yeah, it's a big gear shift in attitude. 'cause you know, you start following these schedules and you have to go out running on a Friday night, yeah, and make something to make sacrifices to get to accomplish. Your objective, yeah, and I distinctly remember going for a run on a Friday night. I think. What am I? What am I doing? I'm 24. Yeah, I should be out on the town having fun. There's something wrong here.

But we went to New York. We run the marathon is the most incredible thing. Yeah, I had done it at the time and that was it. I was addicted. So how far out from the race did you start training?

I can't honestly remember. I think I think maybe six months or so. Yeah, yeah we started getting into it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can't remember. Yeah but after that, I continued the running so I had this. This base of one for running. Yeah, which I feel like is. He served me really well. I feel like instead of tapping into it. Even now 2820 years down the track so it was a bunch of friends that you went over and did the race with. Yeah, just tell us a bit about that race 'cause that would have been fairly epic. Yeah, it was. I think whenever you do an endurance event, especially if it's a new discipline, there's that sense of. Anxiety before you start about whether actually whether you actually get to complete it? Yeah, sure. So yeah, all that anxiety about the race itself. And then the experience of being in New York for the first time. And then just the sheer energy. And the spectacle as well. You're running at this band playing people 55 deep, outlining the course and cheering for, yeah, so it told me to write my name across my chest. So you've got all these people just cheering your name. You feel like it's super stuff, yeah, and yeah, it's just really exhilarating. Yeah, yeah, she's really good fun.

So you're pretty mind-blowing for the first experience of a yeah, for sure. So coming out of that, what was I guess what was on your mind? So did you have a bit of a rest or you're just like? Yeah, let's go I wanna keep train and what's next? I think I mean always on my bucket list. Had been things like, you know, wanting to. Climb Everest and. Wanting to swim the channel, it's wanted all this. All this stuff, yeah and. There's a. The race was called the marathon they saw, which was always on my hit list as well. Yeah, and I thought right. I can do it. I've got the bit between my teeth now. Yeah, I'll start. I'll just keep this momentum up. I just had this desire to get that stuff done. So what was that one? What did you just mention? What races at the American desktop? Yeah yeah. The marathon disables RMDS as it's referred to. Yep is it's a foot race across the Sahara desert. And it's seven marathons in seven days and you self supported. So you carry on your own kit for seven days, yeah, so yeah, you said off with the suppliers for day seven. Yeah, one day one. Yeah yeah cool. So you started about 12 kilos but it gets larger every day.

Easy towards the end. You got your food, you get 10 litres of water a day that you allocated, so you don't have to carry that. You have to go to checkpoints and they give you your water and then they set up these Berber tents for you in the evening, so you're assigned a tent. Well, and there's maybe 10 of you in the group.

So it is pretty Great Britain says two steaks in the ground with a sheet over the top, and that's you. But how far after the New York Marathon was that? Oh, that was a long time later in the end. Uhm? I Will do that in 2015 it's relative. Yep, relatively recently yeah yeah. OK well. What was the training for like that obviously just a lot more running? Affirmative running, but by the time you're coming to, I mean, you can. You can train for a marathon for sure, but this was K I think. Yep. And then you got the heat as well. So. Training through an Aussie summer is pretty helpful, and lots of soft sand work. But yeah, you mean you can train for the marathon and after that a lot of the time it's. Anyone's guess, yeah, so it's more of a mindset thing and I think by that stage I've done enough endurance during his work to know that I could get in the mindset. And yeah, yeah, get it done. So mindset was one thing I wanted to go into, but after you talked about swimming the English Channel, yeah, so you've just done

What was it like? Again, after that, did you have some time off running? Just to clear you had a bid or had some time off everything? Yeah, my feet after that one.

I was dumb. I like my feet were knackered for a little while, yeah yeah they're blowing up I couldn't I can get my shoes on properly for a couple of weeks, yeah. So, but yeah, other than that. If you do, if you train a lot and you. You love it. There's only so long that you can go for before you need it again. Your body is asking for it yet, and your head's asking for it. So you just gotta you just keep moving. Yeah, or transfer disciplines. Yeah, I think I went back to England for a little further back in England for 10 days or so. It stopped in the pool and just moved. Moved the body. Yeah, cool. Uhm? Yeah, but I was. It was sore. There's something called the long days creatively called the long day. Yeah, so you do remember the exact distances, but you do like 3035 or thereabouts and then you do on the 4th day, day, 90 something.

I remember getting to about 50K on the 4th day and I was at a checkpoint. I just thought. I'm in trouble. I'm in trouble here. I am. My feet were so sore. And I was hopping around the checkpoint. And then and then the penny dropped. I was like, Oh yeah, that's right. This is the. This is the challenge. Yeah, this is the growth. This is where you grow. Yeah, and This is why you're doing it. So this is so far. You need to find a way now to get through the next 40K. And this 40K is why you signed up. And yeah, it's just like a little gear shift. And then this is the thing that I love about endurance sport. You just go to the next level and I don't know. I don't know what it was but. Yeah, I just went into this different zone and just ate that last 40K and it's weird it's been. I mean, even now, if I ever feel like that, I think knowledge is the pain and I wouldn't be writing on it. But when you're in it and I had these my back feel the blisters on my feet just popping like oh, that's amazing. And yeah, just kept charging but all your senses are so on everything feels heightened.

So yeah, it's just an amazing experience. I would kind of think it went off. No, no, that's good, and that's exactly sort of what I wanted to sort of dive into. Just that mindset. People sort of gets that idea in their head that they can't do something, but you can literally do anything you want. Your body is very capable of going a lot further than what you can actually push. Yeah, and. It's sort of, and that's sort of one of the ones to talk about like you're training for it, but you can't actually train for those moments. So what do you think it is in those at that moment where you're walking in, you got blisters pop and figure in pain. What is it that sort of OK? Well, next step, next step, next step like what keeps you? What do you think?

So I guess one of the questions that come up in that situation is, well, OK, how do you know when you're actually harming yourself and really actually gonna cause of damage, yeah?

But I feel like when you have. Train yourself a lot that you know in yourself where you're up to. From that point of view, yeah.

Or you just make your peace with it and you just, you know, get your teeth and get it done. And if you kill over then so be it. But I don't know, I think that. You develop some personal truths and. And art paint is where you grow it really. It really is. Yes, there's this concept. I've been reading a bit about it recently and it really resonates. Uhm? Called eudemonia. This Greek philosophy concept about. Fulfilment and they required to over the requirement overcome something hard. Really hard or painful. To feel while you demonic I guess yeah and have that real sense of peace and happiness and contentment and that's a necessary part. Experience is necessary. Part of achieving that outcome. And every time and what the reason I keep going back every time. I've done a challenge like that. You know you have to go into the depths of that personal hell to get spare out the other end. Yeah, and it feels amazing. Yeah, I was buzzing for. For weeks and it's a big gear shift. Big perspective shift on how you want to construct your life.

What you can actually achieve? Yeah, yeah. Alright, so next what would come up next after that? After 2015. Actually that yeah, not 2015.

The following February we climbed back in Cagua, in South-South America, yes. Sorry, excuse me Argentina. Just one of the seven summits you know, the seven summits. So it's the highest peak in South America. Yeah, and I actually my great mate Jake. I did. I did the MD S with yeah we climbed that together. Well as well yeah and he's like he's a phenomenal athlete. I think he came in the top five runners in the MD S. And he's, you know he's not like exclusively an athlete, he's just. Yeah, an individual, so he just. He just ate that up. And then yeah, we could make some kind of knocking about afterwards and thought to think about what we do next. And yes, I can categorize it which is. Yeah, Nice is a slightly different number. How far was that? So that's 6006

by 6960 meters. Yep, just outside Mendoza. And maybe it was about three weeks, 3-4 weeks, you know? So you're tracking. Then you climb a couple of smaller peaks adjacent to the attacking cage, and then you have to be pretty fastidious with your acclimatization. Yeah, of course, I've got a bit of altitude sickness up there, and. Yeah, it was not fun. Yeah, what was that like? Oh, it just comes out. It comes out of the blue. You kind of you, just you go up and then you sort of setting up your tent and then suddenly you just nosedive. Don't feel good and just heaving and cracking headaches. Eventually level out, but yeah, I remember. I remember thinking that it wasn't. Yeah, something I wanted to be doing regularly.

Yeah, it's funny, so that's a slightly different sort of pain. That kind of sickness pain which less enjoyable. Yeah, it didn't. Just that you know that everything is burning I gotta keep pushing yeah kind of pain I think that obviously differences one you can control and one you can't yeah and one you're putting yourself in the position and obviously you're not putting yourself in the other one. Yeah and I think I think there's just that thing that you know you can just push through one but the other one. Yeah, yeah, you don't know where the end is. Yeah, that's true. So. So you were walking there for three to four weeks. Yeah, it was. Yeah, but through about three or four weeks I think yeah, I think yeah. And then yeah, after we submitted. Yeah, just back out in a couple of days. Yeah nice yeah cool. Alright, So what was after that?

After that, I met my wife. And then. And then I actually just finished emergency a couple of months before doing that. Yeah, my hospital since it's a switch to. General practice and. Slightly different tempo to life. Yeah, so I was kind of concentrating on my career trying to qualify as a GP and Yep consolidating my relationship with my then-fiance. Yeah and yeah, we just kind of building a life together. Yeah, which I think I actually one of the conclusions after lots of this sort of stuff is you know you spend 4 weeks in the mountains and you can't help but sort of sit down and philosophize a little bit. Yeah, and figure out what you want. Out of your life and how you're going to set it up and what's important, what's important. Yeah, it's a good bit of time to put some effort into building a family. Yeah, nice. So where? When was the English Channel crossing? 2013 OK, so that was before the. 7. Seven days of seven marathons. Yeah, OK couple of years or so.

What is the difference between training or obviously swimming for a channel and doing it? You know seven marathons in seven days are obviously one walking or running, jogging one swimming, but was sort of the time put in the same. Like would you put in the same amount of time swimming, then the same amount of learning? No, the channel is. Is different altogether. Yeah, I found it really hard, yeah? The running the MD. We're on our feet. Every day since, you know, since we can rock is something that you just trained passively forever. You can keep moving, but in the channel, you can't stop swimming. No. And if you do that, I will push you back. So you gotta repeat. So yeah, you got to the volume of training for the channel is was huge, yeah? Did you swim that on your own or did you have a group of people swimming it at the same time? So one of the rules is that you can only swim it on your own. You and the support vessel. Yep. That's it, and your crew on the boat. Invaluable, though, was the fact that there are a few people back in Sydney trading for it and attempt at the same time, so they must have been about ten of us should be out at the pool every day. Yeah, doing the same sets. Yeah, swimming at the beach together on Saturdays. Yeah, so there's a good amount of support. Yeah, and yeah, it's kind of swapping notes and how long was the I guess from when you decided you're going to do the channel to when you actually do it? What time frame was that? Are registered in November for a swim the following September. Yep. And prior to that, I've done a few 10K swims. Yeah, and then I started upping the ante. Joined this rumour squad. The Vlad swim group in Sydney, who trained marathon swimmers. Yep, and then I went to a cold camp in Melbourne in March. Whatever may make March or May. Anna came undone. It was 15 degrees and you have to do a qualifying

swim for the channel which is 8 degrees at 8 hours. Sorry in 15 degrees or less, yeah. And I got three hours in an hour. I was in bits. I had to get dragged out truck in the sauna that they've got there. Yeah, I've warmed up again. This is this is shocking. How was so much work to do it? And I start to question myself. I didn't know if I was if I had the minerals. My family just leave it for another year. Yep, and dumb. And the coach choked me back in the water.

After just right after this, or yeah after that you gotta get back in now, yeah. This is shocking and brutal. Absolutely brutal, and then so I didn't finish the eight hours everyone else in the group finished it. I was feeling pretty sorry for myself and a bit pathetic and went back to Sydney. I had a chat with the coach charm. I will honestly challenge, she said. Where are you at, do you think? Do you think you can do this? And I really knew that I could do it. And she said OK, good 'cause. I think you can do it as well, yeah? And there's that was amazing. Actually, as soon as she said that and gave me kind of permission to believe, yeah. I felt really bored with my confidence and I was away, but I had to. I already had to up. The ante was getting up to 40K's. All week for Unit 40 to 60 days a week. Yep, which is which was a gear shift then. But also this cold acclimatization. So I had to put 10 kilos on before the swim. Yep and I was doing this teabagging, they call it teabag is just sitting there in cold water. Yeah OK, so I'm sitting here at the ocean pool in the curly N curly one day just sitting there. And his dog Walker, came past and said that excuse me, are you English? Yeah, yeah, that's right, I said yeah, I thought you were just walking.

The thing to do is. So yeah, it was. It was either use your swimming your five tanks every morning and then every night you just sat for an hour in cold water and in between times you're eating as much as you can. Yeah, so I had to live it and breathe it, yeah, so sorry yeah so November. And then March and then going real hard until September. Yeah, so I guess almost like 9 months. Uhm? So how many hours is a day where you swim at? The 10K sets would be better about 3 hours, so you do your set with the squad which is 5/6 K and then you top up just top up. Yep on your own and then. The longest swims. Yeah, just a couple of 10 hour swims so just swim for time. Yep, before you go to England and do it. So it says this about moral just. This guy 10 hours off you go, how did you buy your debt so that like with any injuries like obviously you were eating a lot more, so was it controlled food or just whatever you have seen you eat? Type thing. I just smashing everything, yeah yeah. Just all my colleagues at work would bring me cake and stuff. Yeah, something as well over time. Yeah yeah, yeah good yeah it yeah. Well, the price. Also no injuries or anything like that. I had a physio friend who actually kept me in pretty good nick yeah. Like I feel Kate yeah my shoulders were tightened a lot and she should release stuff for me. Yeah between times yeah but nothing really, unfortunately. Not yeah, there's nothing that's going too bad. That's good. That's really good. Yeah, a couple of other guys I struggled with at the time were going in with a couple of little medals. And you know having to find ways to adapt and get through it? Yeah, I wish they did, which is incredible. Yeah, 'cause you don't want to be carrying anything when you no. And I don't think people realize. Had like just one little niggle, and you're adding that much volume to that niggle. It can turn into a serious injury pretty quick. Yeah, so that's pretty good.

So let's talk about the day. Actually, the day before the swim, what was that like? Terrified, yeah, I was just. I was so nervous. The week a couple of weeks before this was going to die down in the channel so they got to the back end and just gone. Oh ****. And so I was playing on my mind a little bit. Yeah, and then all that sort of you know pre-New York marathon anxiety stuff amplified. Especially, you know you've invested so much in it. You just wanna? Yeah, you really wanna get it done, yeah.

So I was really nervous II all my family came down. Yep, and a couple of mates and my girlfriend at the time was with us and we went out for dinner. I couldn't eat. I couldn't eat my dinner so I went home. And they all finished off dinner. I just consumed with this sort of well, yeah, anxiety. So were you getting any type of food electrolytes? What game plan or getting fluid in yeah? I've been carbo-loading a few days before, yeah? And I had heaps and reserve at the time physically. Couldn't get it in. Yeah, so I was just trying to stay really hydrated and kickoff was at 4:00 o'clock so. The area had a few hours to rest. By that stage, so I just kind of I didn't get any sleep. I was just tossing and turning. Couldn't imagine would yeah yeah it was. It's pretty intense, so 4:00 AM in the morning. You jump in the water. What's going through your mind?

It was lovely actually. Yeah, I was like this, is it? Yeah, I'm doing it. I'm how lucky am I this is amazing isn't great. So I went onto the so you get dropped off. You leave Dover harbour. You don't go to a little bit called Shakespeare Beach. Which is the optimal starting point we normally get. Thrusting into the right tide to the title was going to push you along in the right direction and Yep or tides. Obviously part of the yeah understand to navigate, yeah? So yes, four o'clock and I like the klaxon on the ship goes and then hopping in and away you go. I can just remember I had this light on my goggles. So this green light and so all the memories just shrouded in the green line, yeah? Yeah, it's just making sure you can't see the cliffs by dawn was the only thing I could think of. So yeah, get away from the cliffs. Get away from the cliffs and when dawn comes if you can't see them. You do it, you're tired. Now you're in the right place. Yeah, it's gonna you're gonna get it, yeah and you got there got to Dawn Dawn Dawn is up and it is my morning feed the catcher blower whistle every time this comes to vote for a feed Yep. And I turned around, was a bit edgy. Yeah, we're gonna see him. I couldn't see them. Yeah, nice yeah yeah I'm on. Yeah, so how long it was the whole swim. 1515 hours and three minutes, minutes, 15 hours and 3 minutes. Well, but I am and how long is it? So it's 21 miles as the crow flies. Yeah, but because of the tides you have the flood tide and ebb tide, and then you go for a flood tide again. We're just trying to push you onto this little piece of loan cap it's cool. I guess it's like juts out so they try and get you so you just. Drop you off onto the beach there so it's used to bring them in the smallest distance because of the tides. It means it has implications for the length. Yeah, that you swim. So I did 42. Yeah, OK on that day but some people go up to 60. And yeah yeah. Uhm so. Hell, let's take this back to them on set sort of part. But what keeps you going? You've gone from this. Sport where it's

all community pretty much not ever by yourself while you're playing, exercising, training. You've got this community around you. Then you go into this sport where it's pretty much just you. Obviously, the New York Marathon is very different, but then you go into these other ones where you running through deserts. You swimming through all these waters. What sort of keeps are you going through? That talk like I guess what's going through your mind in those times where you just moving like? Not too many people have that much time by themselves in their own minds. Where is y'all doing these things? Where you're spending so much time by yourself in your own head? So I guess what sort of what techniques? What things do you do sort of just bring yourself back into the moment and just keep going through what you need to do? The channel was a bit different because my sister had been quite unwell a couple of years before and.

Again, being on the side of the world. I felt really helpless. I couldn't do anything meaningful. So sorry I am one of my motivators from channels to raise money for her, Yep. And. Yeah, it's like you can't take your focus off of yourself. Then it's not so much of a burden, yeah?

And I think that's. That's like a good life lesson as well and something that. There is a technique that helps you get through. These these these events. If you stop focusing on yourself. I know your problems and think about somebody else's problems and try and help and yours. Your problems kind of disintegrate. Yeah, a little bit yeah. And so Beth was a big motivator, particularly in training, but that it even just on the day you kind of little techniques for breaking down the size of the task. There's nothing new. Yep, read about it in every endurance but you've ever read. Yeah, but the channels, for example, it into five different shipping lanes, so objective one get to the end of the fair shipping lane. Yep, then you can do two etc. Uh. You have little mantras in your head. I had moms in English teachers who had been fairly parents since I was knee-high and some of them were just going through my head and you know we had this list of friends names. And the coach would shout the name now and again. If you like to swim, it came with Ashley. So I just got ash in the war visualizing him in the water next to me in this swimming together. And yeah, come thinking about all that so that it loads a little table. Is that yeah? So in the last hour recording one, we sort of talked a little bit about meditation or that sort of stuff. Do you think there's any

sort of correlation between meditation and spending that time just running down a path somewhere in that just in the breath in the time, absolutely. Absolutely you can't. You find yourself just. When your mind is nowhere else, there's no reason for it to be you just gotta get on with what's in front of you, yeah, and you've got to overcome whatever pain you find yourself in. And yeah, there's just no other headspace, and it's brilliant. Yeah, you're completely present, yeah and. Yes, I guess that one is meditative or the object of most meditation is to completely inhabit your space. Yeah, and really enjoy every moment or at least be present. For every moment, so you're living a really full existence, yeah? And I feel like you know when you look back and you think. You're reflecting on these events. They're big, they're big moments in your life. But maybe the reason the big moments is 'cause you were so present when you were doing them. Yeah, you know. And if I can. Strive to be as present is that every day. Then maybe every day can be already. Yeah, significant meaningful day? Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, yeah, I think that's something. Yeah, you're right. Something I learned from it is. I guess that was my next sort of. Directional one to go like what is the biggest takeaways from doing these things? And I feel like you just sort of hit the nail on the head of just sort of. Like just listen to your talk. I think it's. And listen to other people that sort of doing adventure races and all that sort of stuff. And the big things like you get to that point where there's so much pain but you come through it and you get that higher coming through it. That's almost addictive. But then you also have this sense of you know that meditation state of just being in that moment so present with that pain. Yeah, and

I think that sort of makes you a lot stronger mentally. Yeah and obviously physically. Yeah, definitely. So what would be your biggest? I guess looking back on all the things you've done, what's the biggest moment and what had the biggest impact on you? I guess the rest of your sort of outlook on life. In terms of those. Those kinds of sporting challenges yes.

I'll take a sporting challenges the chat touching the sense of touching sand in the channel at the other end of the channel in France. Yeah, was bliss. Yeah, it was pure bliss, yeah.

Yeah, I think that. That was the first time. I knew that anything was possible, yeah, until then, you recognize that it's probably true and you know you can agree with the aphorism. But until I did that and I touched it like oh **** this anything is possible. Yeah, right? I used to swim like a Labrador. I just did that well.

Yeah, I mean, I've never been a very grateful swimmer that was deterred. I got that determination that got me across the channel. And yeah, so that I think that's the first time I really. So yeah, OK, that's yeah, but if you want something, yeah. Organize your thinking. Such that you could just allow yourself to go and get it done. And yeah, well, I guess we're all really limitless in. What we're able to do, yeah? Well, again, let's take that you've got two boys now what? How will you take those lessons and sort of instill that in your boys? You know, taking on challenges that they might think they can't take on. And I guess that's good advice for anybody else. Like yeah, what advice would you have for somebody thinking more? I can't do that. Well, that's too hard or that's going to be too painful. What advice would you be giving them to actually pick themselves up and go and do it? Well, you can. You definitely can, but something I really want to instil in my boys is a work ethic. And whatever is that you're doing. You just try hard. Try really, really hard. And try hard every day. Just try and be the best version of yourself, yeah? Bill, I certainly failed on a regular basis at being the best version of myself, but I think you need to be able to strive for that and. Whether you're. Like digging holes in the garden or studying hard for exams. You got we gotta push, yeah and I think if you if you can do that.

Learn that habit, then you can. You can accomplish anything and doors will open. Yeah as well. Yeah, if you're willing to slog your guts out. Well, my observations of other people that. That I respect her I see. For life first hand getting stuff done, they want to get done. It's just hours at the coalface just a single-minded determination to make it happen. So I would just say learn to work hard. Yeah, and I think you hit the nail on the head. It's a habit, it's just something that you've got to try and do every single day and just yeah work for it exactly that yeah, there's nothing to do with talent. No, that's all about it. It's all about industry hundreds, I believe I 100% agree with that. Yeah alright, let's turn. Direction and what's coming up next? What are your I guess? Uhm, obviously things have changed for you. Now you got single and you can't sort of jump. Go travel all over the world and take a few four weeks off and walk up some mountains. What would be yours? Like future goals, whether we're talking 12 months or ten years or 50 years. The. Just this last winter, gone over, attempted the ice more, which is to swim a mile in water. That's less than 5 degrees. And qualified. After a little bit of turmoil, eventually got the kilometre down so you do it. If you could do a kilometre. Then you qualify to be allowed to attempt the full mile. But without having the boys, you know it's. I thought we were trained from a mile. That's not much. Yeah, that's a few. There's a couple of three K swims mystery, 3K swims or we can get that before the boys are up. You're not taking too much away from what they need. And then you just sit in the ice tub, which you can do. You know 10 minutes when they go to bed or whatever. You can always squeeze it in. Yeah, so I thought that's quite a tidy little challenge, yeah?

Hopefully, we won't have too many implications for the family. Yeah, that was before I tried it. They had to witness. Card for a long time. But so anyway, I got the kilometre done and my next objective will be to try and. Get the mile nice. We went into lockdown and the water warmed up so I haven't been out there yet to attempt that. Yeah, yeah, very good. And beyond that, I did not like to keep. Keep strong, keep mobile.

Yeah and I think that. 3040 years or whatever will be more focused around general. Yeah, general health and well being and trying to stay strong so I can keep up with the boys. Definitely yeah, very good. Alright, so. Let's just finish up with this topic. Sort of mentioned it before. Like I don't get to talk to too many people that have trained or spoken to such a variety of different people. You know, ER, GP everywhere. There's obviously different trends or ways or directions that health and Wellness go into. For example, Iraq, and in the last two years. Gyms have. Feel like in the past teams have always been associated with you. Go there to get a goal done. Yeah, whether it's you know you're training for. A marathon or you're trying to lift something heavy, or you know you're trying to make your body look good. But now gyms are almost seen as something you do for health and Wellness, and I think that's a massive shift as well. Yeah, and now in the last couple of years, tech has come into it as well, and that's like, well, we do our business online because there's so much more opportunity to help different people. And now tech is almost seen as a way to help you achieve health and wellness goals as well. So it would be very interesting to see where you've seen what you've seen over the past couple of years or decade or so. Yeah, changes and where you think like, I guess, as humans where we're going for health and Wellness next. Yeah, OK, yeah. Well, I think. Certainly something I've noticed in GP in terms of. The literature that I've been exposed to, even from my college and reading. On a regular basis, there's more. There's a lot more. Awareness of the year. This topic Wellness, which is, incorporates food good nutrition. Mindfulness meditation and moving your body. And just sort of. Integrating everything, yeah, such that there are not these little pockets.

And they're not like. Optional these are things that should become non-negotiable. But I've been really encouraged to see the scientific world embrace things like meditation, which has a huge scientific base to support its value, yeah? Up at the Medical Center, now we're trying to sort of integrating meditation. Have and not necessarily as an intervention, but just as prophylaxis. It's obviously a great mental health tool, but there's no one who wouldn't benefit from it. Being able to completely manage their emotions, which is. You know that the ethos of mental health, you know of meditation. If you know metabolic health, alcohol, alcoholism, smoking, you know diabetes type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, etc etc. Lots of these things are born with poor lifestyle choices. So you step that back into great meditation and think about all you know, the decisions that you're making and the implications you can bring yourself back. Maybe you put down the cigarette, maybe you'll just have two days instead of 10, yeah? And. You can solve a lot of other problems, so I think more awareness of that. The prophylaxis across those differences. Forums rather than the kind of reactive medicine I get, your blood pressure is high. He's a pill, yeah? I mean that that stuff has their evidence to support it, but I think certainly the way. I've seen. General practice trying to go is more about. This general awareness and integration of those really, really basic concepts, yeah, but things that we don't do very well, generally speaking, yeah, so that's

what I. That's what I hope for, certainly, but I've certainly seen evidence of that. Those philosophies are being integrated as well. So yeah, definitely well, even within the health and fitness industry like, yeah. I've been in it for probably 1214 years now, and just from what we learned then compared to now, like yeah, pretty much every client we have now. We have a conversation about sleep. You go back ten years and like who cared about sleep and they won't even talk about it as a PT. You'd never talk about sleep now it's number one we talk thing we talk about with our clients 'cause it's so important. I just feel like the whole information age and like I said tech like you can literally look. Let's start looking this stuff up by yourself. All that is good and bad parts of that, yeah, but just the whole awareness of you know what's actually good for you. Yeah, and how has it's evolved? Yeah, yeah. So what have you implemented? I guess for yourself that you've learned over the last couple of years. Like let's take James 15 years ago, what will you do then? Thought health and Wellness wise? And what are you doing now? 15 years ago. I was drinking way to 2626. Yeah, drinking way too much. Uh, aware of nutrition, but probably. Cheating or not, 'cause I was drinking, yeah, drinking fairly freely, yeah.

But you know, equally, I was a student without quite as much. Ability to be able to invest. Yeah in different things like it. Like a nice yeah which is something. I'm really dependent on it now. I've been asked by a smart thing fairly religiously in. I get an awful lot out of that in just five minutes. Uhm? Try yeah, try to meditate on breastwork. Really enjoyed that couple of times a week so just these. are some more holistic practices. I think I'm trying to. Yeah, trying to do it on a more regular basis. Yeah, and just thinking about it. While meeting a bit as well, yeah yeah. Uhm? I think that's probably the difference, and I'm much more amenable to a rest day. Yeah, yeah yeah. I agree eight. Yeah again, the conversation like they're just a conversation of the idea of just thinking a bit better about what you're putting into your body's got along better as well. But you go back 1015 years as a PT. It should be like I would get your protein in there now. It's like, well, where's that protein coming from that also matters a lot more, and it's good to sort of have those conversations. Yeah? And then it's actually a conversation you have to have. How are we doing on time?

Good yeah yeah yeah. I guess the other thing is well. When you see lacking in primary care, you see all this. See people's health stories playing out all the time so you sort of think. I don't want that outcome. I don't want that outcome. How am I going to make sure that that's this stuff doesn't happen to me? Yeah. And he can't help but be influenced in it and just try to sort of ward off. Tails, you know, yeah. Do you know a joint replacement for someone who's got advanced arthritis and a lot of pain every day? Great? Yep, definitely fully advocate for that. I don't want one now. Of course, I don't. So you know mobility. Stay strong. Yeah no, keep a healthy body. You know, irrespective of what we've been discussing, maybe don't push your joints that hard anymore, yeah? So yeah, I'm definitely influenced by what I see it when I see it. Well, yeah, that's fair enough, and that's something that I always try and say, especially when podcasts if anybody's been listening for a few now, you'll know that. The best time is to invest in your health and Wellness is yesterday. Yeah, not when you need that knee replacement. Yeah, like yeah, get that knee replacement if you need it, but what you do now is going to dictate what happens to you in 10 or 20 years. Yeah, and I feel really fortunate about that on a daily basis. I'm so grateful because you get that. You're constantly made aware of how transient. Things are, yeah, I'd say come off and you also see some awful stories of people's demise and poor, healthy like thank God. I'm so I'm really grateful. Yeah, but it kind of keeps you in shape every day. Yeah, step away from the basketball.

No, that always happens, yeah. Or so for the old timber. So what would be your message too? I guess just the general public about health and Wellness. Do you know? You've noticed all these trends. All this information coming out now about, you know, a holistic view on living a better life. What would be your message to the general public out there on where to start or how to think or what they should be doing or?

Generally speaking, in terms of something that we all do, is to eat and drink, so I'm a big fan of the 8020 sorts of principle. You're never going to get 100%. Faster, like intermittent fasting or clean clean eating or whatever it is so. Bear that in mind and give yourself a break. Yeah, if you're 80% of the time it's clean, great. 20% of the time its pizza and a few beers. And that's OK. Yeah, so I think would be realistic about those things. And then I freely. Encourage people to just try and step into that realm. Meditation, breathwork Yep. Whatever it is and just be still a little bit in the day because it gives you so much. And I feel like as soon as. You have that little bit of clarity at the start of your day or. Or wherever you might find your time, you can start to pick out all the stuff that you don't need to be thinking about and recalibrate those thought processes that might be letting you down. And then and then you can have a better time, yeah? So what do you do to clear your mind in the morning to get you going? So one thing I do is write in my diary. I just write a few things out, a few messages to myself, how I want to be that day, and I literally write everything I need to do. Yeah, OK, and just think about things and I know it's a big difference when I don't do it and when I do it my day is just a lot clearer.

It happens a lot easier, obviously. 'cause I've thought about what my day is going to be and how I want to be. So what do you do in the morning to sort of clear your mind and get you ready for the day? Yeah, I'm definitely a big list person. I always have a list going. I think that's pretty much a consistent thing that I do, yeah? The consistency of the morning meditation has waned a little since you guys came on last six months old. But even on the drive to work, I like to just try and do like a. A body scan, yeah of you with that you know that that process we can pay attention in different parts of your body. Or even have it like a 5 minute set at some stage of the day and justice. Just remember that everything. All the negative energy maybe or negative thoughts I've had are of my doing their my thoughts and it's just a chemical reaction. Yeah, so kind of getting rid of that doesn't mean anything. It's not real. And then just kind of breed it away and. And go again, yeah yeah, I kind of just try to do that in the morning if I've got. Talk about the space. Yeah, nice always comes back to the breath and you said something about consistency there and consistency really is the case of anything. But what people realize, especially if you listen to this whole thing. And you're like I can't do any of that consistency. You can just be once a week. You don't have to beat yourself up and do it every single day religiously. You can start once a week. Yeah, as you said 8020, yeah, just start. Even if you start with the 20% start working on that and then work up from there. Yeah, so that you sent all right? So one last thing. You want to share with everybody any thoughts, queries, or. Pieces of wisdom that you want to finish up with.

Feel like you've dropped a lot already. I can't wait to listen back to this one already, I guess. My mum used it said to me once. The best piece of advice I can give you is

"never saying no to an opportunity".

This must be modified in certain contexts, but I think that's pretty good. Yeah, it's a really good one that's really good. Awesome, well thank you very much. Thank you, man. This is really good. Ran two was even better than RAM. All right, all you listen to guys out there listening.