#44. Are before and after photos ruining the fitness industry?
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What is up, everybody? My name is Jack Graham, and I'm Mac Rykers, and this is the In-situ|Collective podcast. Thanks again for tuning in. If it is your first time here, please consider hitting subscribe or follow wherever you're listening along. We do release two episodes every single week, so the Tuesday show is this one that you're listening to now, and that is all about health Wellness giving you everything you need to know to make the right decisions go on the right path and reach your goals. And Friday is a wrap up of the week where we just basically talk **** and wrap the week up given new fund things, tips and teachable moments. I'm glad you got that. That was like the 5th take. Also, we do release on Fridays a weekly newsletter email which this week, I have created a pretty cool download for you guys. It is a seven-day environmental overhaul, so it pretty much helps you make your environment optimal for your goals over a seven day. So that will be coming out this coming Friday. And where can they go to get it? So you have to subscribe to our mailing list. I guess you can go to—instead, you collective.com. Yep, or. I'm sure this during this week, if you follow us on socials, we will both be posting links in our stories about signing up to the Emailing list, or there is a link below in the description of this episode. Alright, here we go. Let's get into the episode.
So a few weeks ago, we released an episode about challenges and fitness challenges. I got quite a lot of feedback and some good feedback and a lot of comments, and some good discussions around it as well. And this follows on from that. But this is probably one of my most passionate things about the—this industry and being a coach and all that sort of stuff. And I do believe that before and after photos are destroying the health and fitness industry. I thought for a second you were gonna say that they're like. The best thing is the way your tone is going, so if you listen to that and it strikes up a nerve, or you agree or disagree, please listen to the whole episode. We're going to go over things that do why they are important. But a lot of things that why you shouldn't pay attention to him as well. This is sort of a hard one because we struggle with this. We've had lots of conversations about using before and after photos, and we've actually had quite a few people, business coaches, family members, and all that sort of stuff. Say, why don't you use before and after photos? And I strongly believe that as coaches, and hopefully, there are some coaches out there listening and taking a bit away from this. I don't think we should be using before and after photos. To get people into health and fitness. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I feel, even from a nutrition perspective, like I've only been coaching for what? Three years now, but. The before and after photos are definitely not the most important aspect of the person's journey. Yeah, and I feel like if you put all of the weight on, like say, say they've seen your before and after photos and they sign up expecting that and all of their weight is on that. And they don't get that. Then they feel as though they have failed. Yeah, as in like that is what they should get the same body composition that the person before then got, which definitely is not the case because. Everybody body is completely different, and so is everybody journey. Yeah, so I feel like not all before and after photos, but the majority of before and after photos are just false sales.
As I said, they are super effective, and we've had business coaches tell us we need to start using them, and I refuse to because it gets people started off into the health and fitness industry the wrong way. Yeah, they straight away they're focused on image and aesthetics. Then what they should look like? And it's not about that you should be getting into health and fitness. Industry or starting off wherever you're at, you should be doing it for the health benefits 1st and as we've always said, those looks and all that sort of stuff. Just follow, and we've had many clients still join up with us and say my goal is to look better and look this way and all that sort of stuff and most of the time. After education and, you know, just a bit of time doing the right things, they realize that that's not as important. Like I know, one of our clients and she's probably listening now. She signed up for all those goals, but. And we've got before and after photos with her, but we don't release them because of, you know, what we're talking about. But it's the little things that you can't take photos of that to give her more benefit. And this goes for all our clients, not just her like I can cut and paste this for all our clients so you can see when they first sign up their energy levels are low, you can see they've got bags, they've sleepy all the time. They haven't got the time and patience for people, but six months in and they've completely changed. They look better. Their face looks better, they. Have more energy, and it's funny when you're talking to them. They've got more time and effort to put into things with their family and friends and all that sort of stuff, so you can't take photos of that. No, you can't take photos of a happier, more energetic life and say here, this is what happens. Yeah, it's just not as appealing, and I guess you can put that stuff into words, which is what we focus on. More so as testimonials like things that have nice things that our clients have said about themselves.
And now coaching, but like that doesn't catch people's eye. I guess when they're scrolling social media and stuff like that, I feel like that is why before and after photos are so popular because they're eye-catching like someone sees. A photo of the same person, but they look like two different people. Yeah, and that makes you stop and look and be like, oh wow, my body looks like how their body used to look, so I must be able to get a body like that if I go with this program or whatever it is, but that's definitely not the case, and that's why. And obviously, it's a lot easier just to look at that and make assumptions rather than reading testimonials that are written out. Well, we are wired too. You know, get more out of visual stuff. Yeah, so we could put down a study next to before and after photos, and you're gonna. The study could prove exactly what we're trying to say. You know, do all the right things, and you'll get to know better body composition. But then you have the two photos before and after. People are gonna remember the before and after photos before like they won't even remember what's written in the study. Yeah, so that's, and again, that's why we do the podcast and all this sort of stuff just to educate people. In the right things, you should be doing. And yeah, it's a lot harder, and it's a lot more effort, but in the long run, people that do pick up and start with it stick with it and use it for the rest of their life. Yeah, instead of like these short term goals. Yeah, I agree. I do feel like going back to how you mentioned it. It does influence people to start for the wrong reasons is a very big one because I feel like if you start a program with. Like the thought in mind that you're going to look like that person in the photo, then I feel like you're a lot more likely to quit sooner because it takes along like that person has probably been training for years and years, and they can just like there's no one stopping this.
The sales team was saying that they've got these results in 60 days. I feel like the rules and regulations around the health and fitness industry are very, very loose. I feel like if you are signing up to a program that goes for 60 days and expecting those results, then it's very disheartening when you don't get the results at the end of the 60 days, and then I feel like a lot of people end up quitting their album fitness journey and then another six months later they'll see another before and after photo, and then they'll try again. Whereas if you sign up from like I'm ready to change, or like, these people have a good approach to health and fitness, and I wanna learn about my body and how to be healthier. Then there is so much more opportunity for smaller wins and more wins than just visual aesthetics, I guess.
So yeah, where you start, I support why you start so so important and before and after photos just start you off in such a bad place. Yeah, so there are two things on that. A lot of people don't like it. You said you don't actually know where those photos come from. Yeah, and there are a few tricks I've been in this industry for. Long enough. I know all the tricks I've used in the past, I've used before and after photos and pass, because that's just what we did. Yeah, I didn't know any better. And the first one is you might get people signed up to a program, and you get two really good before and after photos out of that hundred people. That's only two people. Success rate like what? What happened to the other Yeah, 2% success rate, and that's not very good. That's for a program that's not very good. You should have a success rate before your clients, but then you only see those. You only see those two photos, and that's enough to get other people in. Yeah, and the success rate isn't very high, but because you've got those two people that have had so many dramatic results, it just keeps getting people sucking sucked in. But again, as you said, the 98 other people that fall off. Don't get any results from it, and then they think and then their health and fitness again. They've just got a bad idea of it. They've got a bad. Relationship with it, and it just, yeah, snowballs.
And they don't really pick up the right things and do the right things. Yeah, I also feel like the people that do get the 100 clients to sign up and get two successful ones. Obviously, in the health and fitness industry for the wrong reasons. Obviously, they're trying. They're in it to make money, yeah? Whereas we are definitely in it obviously to help our clients. Yeah, and like help people live a longer and healthier life like I can't.
That is literally what we are passionate about, and I guess using how the before and after photos just doesn't align with what we do. And there are also so many ways that you can manipulate photos. Like you said, as you'll notice, a lot of the after photos the people attend. The lighting is better. They probably just got a pump on at the gym. They are probably dehydrated. They probably haven't eaten for 12 or 24 hours. Yeah, they're lean. But also, I'm sure the majority of them don't live every day of their life looking that lean. Yeah, because being that like a lot of the photos or the dramatic ones anyway, that are super lean. It's really hard to sustain, and they're probably like they're probably just as unhealthy as they were when they were overweight—trying to maintain that lean physique, Yep. Yes, I feel like it's, it's just not. Worth chasing. So like you said, and there's like, there's a healthy point in everybody's lifelike. And this is the thing what that healthy point looks like is different for everybody. So you can't take one photo and go. This is health, yeah, and this is what the health and This is why I say before and after photos have destroyed the health and fitness industry because health doesn't have an image. Health is based on your blood. Like you know how healthy you are inside. Yeah, how good are your hormones? How well do you sleep? Have you got all the macro micronutrients that your body needs to operate properly, and you can't take photos of that? No, and. Putting and again there's unhealthy like you can carrying too much bodyweight is unhealthy and that we know that just through again, studies and blood markers and all that sort of stuff. But then going too far the other way and not having enough body fat is unhealthy as well, especially for women. Yeah, and it causes all sorts of health issues.
Again, these are the photos we're using to say this is healthy when it couldn't be further from the truth. Yeah, body composition does not. Equal health no. Again, I've talked about this in plenty of other podcasts where you see Young 22 Young, Young, year olds. And I look healthy. They look ripped, and they're doing all these good poses. And they've got thousands of followers. But yet, they can't get an erection. Yeah, and they're in their early 20s. They have to actually take medication to get an erection. That's how unhealthy they are, and we use those photos to say this is health. This program and you'll be there. And it's like, well, it's just crazy that society values aesthetics over health and quality of life, even they're just held so so highly. But that moment, why they are so effective. In marketing, yeah, and again we could use it and get a whole lot more clients and make a whole lot more money. But again, it's just not the right way, and that's what I don't believe. I don't want to contribute to what we're talking about. Yeah, we want people to like and enjoy health and fitness, and water lives for longer. Yeah, definitely, I feel. Have you fallen for health? Like obviously, you've been training or have you fallen? But how have you fallen for photos before? 'cause obviously you have been training for a lot longer than I have, and I've probably bought a lot more programs than I have, so I've been training since I was 16. Oh my goodness, I've been in the gym. I still fall for before and after photos. As in, you see them, and you still click them, or are you still with this trainer? No, I still click it and go. Maybe if I do this program, I can look like. I still think you rather train. I know I still, and I don't follow a lot of influences. I guess you could say on social media because of that. Like, I know we're doing a whole podcast on why these are bad for you and how they're ********, but I still fall for it.
Yeah, that's how effective they are because your brain is hardwired to even supplements change. I have clicked on supplements because of the guy in the photo who said, oh, maybe if I take this supplement, I'll look like that. Have you bought anything like what was? Do you remember the 1st? Or one of the worst things that you bought because of a before and after photo, or you feel like once you get to it, you look at it and you're like? Nah, don't be silly. Back when things like Turks like suspension training first got popular, I bought like AT Rex type suspension type team because of the ad. I don't even know what that is. The thing you can hang from your door, and it's just got two handles just like said gymnastic rings. It's a TV ad, and yeah, yeah, and that's probably the stupidest thing I've bought. Because they had some muscly sexy guy doing it just super ten as well, I'm sure and like huge muscles are now like I know for a fact you can't build muscle doing that sort of stuff. That's another thing. I feel like people say people got these results from this program, and they probably didn't. People got results from working out with this piece of equipment, and there is like I feel like a lot of celebrities do this like Chris Hemsworth or whatever. Only does this style of training, and this is how he looks, you know. Yeah, he's at him. He pumps up his app as if that's what he uses to get the results that he's got. And it's not even close, but he does bodybuilding types style workouts, and that's not even on his app. Yeah, so now it's just getting worse and worse like it's in video form. Pretty much, yeah yeah, I feel like the first. I haven't been in that fitness industry for very long. I feel like the first gym I went to was Jack Gym, and that was what? What? Four years ago, I think, and before that, I used to do Kayla Itsines workouts in the backyard, and that was probably the first, before and after photo thing that I fell for because it was.
I feel like she was one of the first ones to start selling women's programs specifically, like in PDF form and things like that. So it was very much based on before and after photos. It's like this woman was overweight, and now she's extremely skinny by doing burpees and star jumps and stuff like that. She's just starved herself for 30 days. Yeah, I have done heaps of cardio, so yeah, she was my first and only. I think I don't really fall for them like. I see them, and I appreciate the change. I suppose in the person, but I'm also like yeah, no yeah. Look, we both know how much effort goes into getting some change in your body. It's not easy, and it does take a lot of work to get change and start looking better and being healthier and just being more comfortable within your skin. But yes, you can do that in 30 days. But what happens after that? And that's another thing that I hate. The before and after photos going all these challenges and stuff, but people just do the challenges get some good results in their stock. Yeah, and that's another thing they wear, or if not worse, because they're focused on the look and the aesthetics. They get that and stop, and it's like. Well, what about all the other benefits? How are you? You're probably sleeping better. You probably have more energy more tolerance towards people. Your work is probably better. Everything is probably better, but you don't focus on that because you started because of the looks and focused on the looks. Before we started this podcast, I looked back at it. I have like one set of before and after photos. I'm not even before and after because I feel like as another thing is there shouldn't be enough after it's a progressive thing like you don't want to get to a point in, never change again.
So I guess I looked at my before photos before I started doing more exercise than PE in high school. And I feel like it does. I wasn't exactly overweight. I would say I was just chubby, and that's probably harder for me because you don't like there's not that much change. So the people that lose a lot of weight. Have these massive before and after photos, but what about the people that just want to change a little bit or feel better or be stronger? It's really hard for them to have satisfying before and after photos because I was still like. I guess I'm a smaller structure, and I've never really had. Like a problem with weight, but I just was squishy, I suppose so, but having like my before photos, I can see a slight difference, but it's not something that. I would post side by side because it's not like, wow, it's a massive change. Yeah, you know what I mean, and I feel like a lot of people want to get into health and fitness, but. Also, I don't feel like they've progressed much. Yeah, but that also is a reason why I like keeping these photos for myself. I guess you have small changes that only you would notice, and if you put these photos on social media, people will probably be like, oh, you haven't changed that much, but for yourself to look back and just see where you can see like muscles coming and where you are tighter and more toned, and you look happier. I feel like that is one benefit to keeping your own before and after photos. Yeah, 100%, and I do believe that we get all our clients to actually take photos themselves. Progressively because you can't, when you're looking in the mirror, you can't tell yourself as you see. You see yourself every single day, and you don't notice the change. So taking those photos, you can, and we say to clients, go back and have a look at the photos you took it. Start, and they're very different. Again, talking about one of our clients that's probably listening. Today she took photos a long time ago, and she's taking photos progressively. And she's like, I can't see much change.
I'm like I can see each change like look at your face, look at how you're standing, your posture. You look like you look more confident. You just stay standing just in a better position like yeah, it just looks a whole lot better when you're just standing there. But not only that you got. We couple that with a diary entry every single week. We are like, we've got a couple of questions. We ask our clients every single week about energy, mood, mindset and all that sort of stuff. And you can see that progress over time as well. Yeah, so don't just take the photos journal as well. So then you can look back at your journal entries or just how you felt. Yeah, and just your mindset as well. Yeah, for sure like mindset is huge and something again you can't take a photo of.
Generally don't take photos myself just because I'm never happy with myself like there's always something I can do. I always can look at my body and go. Oh, that's not that great. I could work on that, but if we don't have granted since we've moved here, we don't have a good mirror position to take full-body photos. But if you did take photos and you looked back, then you would be like, oh wow, that has changed a lot since then. Look, I know I've changed a lot, and we've been doing. You have been trying different things over the last 12 months just to see what works best and what doesn't. And all that sort of stuff. Food, exercise. And yeah, I've even contemplated it sort of the start of the 12 months taking a photo. And if I took a photo now, the body of my body is completely different. Yeah, and I could have used that for before and after that, and it's like, what's the point? Like I'm a lot further like what do I do to get results is completely different to what somebody else does to get results. And you have been training to some degree for the past. How many years? Yeah, long time. Yeah, yeah, so yeah. I feel like that's pretty much all I had to say about before and after photos. I would love to know if any of you were listening to do like taking before and after photos and if you actually if you do take them, do look back at them. Yeah, and I'm not saying that you shouldn't post your own before and after photos. You should be proud of what you have achieved. You should be proud of how you look, what all the hard work you've been putting in and what that's led to. Yeah, post them, go nuts. But that is your result. I don't think somebody should be using your success. To sell to somebody else, yeah is what we're getting at there, yeah, and don't fall for them. It's sweet if you have been. Obviously, you've made it this far. You've obviously got something out of it, and you probably got an opinion on this, so please screenshot this podcast wherever you're listening. Whatever platform you're listening to, put it in your stories and just give us a quick gist of what you think about this subject are before and after photos destroying the health and fitness industry? Yes or no. Quick little. Just tag us so we can read it in your story and share it on our page to get a bit of discussion, you'll. Find me on Instagram @Jack_Insitu and Mac_Insitu, and we'll continue the conversation there.